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Esther's founders, Emunah and Margaret, aren’t spirits-industry lifers. They come from branding, and that’s their edge. Esther, named for a Jewish biblical queen and anchored by a signature green cap, is their bet that rum's long-overdue moment won't be won by the biggest budget, but by the purest point of view.
In this conversation, Emunah is joined by Studio Freight designers Ken Pena and Lídia Santos, who helped translate Esther’s sensibility to the web. Together, they talk through the category, the rum, and the process of making something just weird enough to work.
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CF
First of all, rum? What made you think this was an opportunity?
EW
Rum is a tremendously huge category from a commercial standpoint. But when you talk to the average consumer, people don't associate it with anything they'd have on their bar cart and that's primarily a branding problem.
There also hasn't really been any cool rum on the market. When you look at the actual product and how it's made, it's really similar to tequila. Rum is a pure, distilled form of sugarcane. The carb count is the same and everything, yet people think of it as this super sweet, syrupy thing.
There's also this underdog spirit to people who love rum, and we realized on a cultural level that the underdog spirit is a pretty relatable thing. Because the category is so desperate for disruption, everybody who is trying to disrupt it is sort of doing it together. There's not this sense of severe competition. It's more like, let's elevate the category together.
What's really going to bring rum back as a cultural thing is going to have to be that personal, emotional feeling behind what it stands for. The anti-authority. The anti-bougie tequila world. Everyone's sick of it. People just want to be chill, have fun, get street food, be out on the streets. Create a vibe where everybody's invited.
There also hasn't really been any cool rum on the market. When you look at the actual product and how it's made, it's really similar to tequila. Rum is a pure, distilled form of sugarcane. The carb count is the same and everything, yet people think of it as this super sweet, syrupy thing.
There's also this underdog spirit to people who love rum, and we realized on a cultural level that the underdog spirit is a pretty relatable thing. Because the category is so desperate for disruption, everybody who is trying to disrupt it is sort of doing it together. There's not this sense of severe competition. It's more like, let's elevate the category together.
What's really going to bring rum back as a cultural thing is going to have to be that personal, emotional feeling behind what it stands for. The anti-authority. The anti-bougie tequila world. Everyone's sick of it. People just want to be chill, have fun, get street food, be out on the streets. Create a vibe where everybody's invited.
“People just want to be chill, have fun, get street food, be out on the streets. Create a vibe where everybody's invited.”
Emunah Winer Esther
CF
I'm curious about the creation process. It’s a crowded category, what makes the difference?
EW
The way we validated our own thesis was simple: if we're going to make a rum, it has to be a rum we actually like. Otherwise we're falling short of our whole idea and that was a very difficult task.
What we were trying to do was both a brand play and an actual softening of the product profile itself. We found the right distillery, found the right formula that feels smooth and easy and sippable to the regular consumer, and also special to the bartender.
There needs to be two things: a reason somebody picks it up off the shelf, which is really the brand's job. And then a reason they come back to it, which is the rum's job.
Here’s one practical thing we learned along the way. As we were tasting through rounds and rounds of samples, we were drinking it neat. At a certain point, we realized we’d forgotten to consider what it actually lands like in a cocktail. It turned out we’d landed on something that was really good neat but felt really diluted in a drink. We had to reverse-engineer that.
Another thing we realized is that the biggest factor for whether any of this works — more than the rum, the bottle, anything — is the relationship with the vendors and manufacturers. When you run into production problems, either those people charge you an extra twenty grand or they want to help. Picking those people right from the get-go has been critical.
What we were trying to do was both a brand play and an actual softening of the product profile itself. We found the right distillery, found the right formula that feels smooth and easy and sippable to the regular consumer, and also special to the bartender.
There needs to be two things: a reason somebody picks it up off the shelf, which is really the brand's job. And then a reason they come back to it, which is the rum's job.
Here’s one practical thing we learned along the way. As we were tasting through rounds and rounds of samples, we were drinking it neat. At a certain point, we realized we’d forgotten to consider what it actually lands like in a cocktail. It turned out we’d landed on something that was really good neat but felt really diluted in a drink. We had to reverse-engineer that.
Another thing we realized is that the biggest factor for whether any of this works — more than the rum, the bottle, anything — is the relationship with the vendors and manufacturers. When you run into production problems, either those people charge you an extra twenty grand or they want to help. Picking those people right from the get-go has been critical.
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CF
I love it but the name Esther is unexpected. Where did it come from?
EW
There are really three aspects to it.
The most personal one: Esther was a Jewish biblical queen. A total badass in the way she maneuvered the people around her to save her people. She embodied this underdog persona and she didn't want to be in the spotlight but ended up there. She was culturally ambiguous, she was an orphan, nobody knew who she was or where she came from. So she belonged to everyone. She had this really feminine but powerful, silent strength about her. Those were all things we related to, and things we saw reflected in the rum category itself.
The second thing: Esther sounds like esters, one of the main chemical compounds in rum that give it its flavor profile. It’s a clever nod for anyone in the industry.
The third thing was simply, what's a name nobody would expect for a rum? It's not a polished name. It's kind of harsh, kind of weird. When you think of Esther, you think of an eighty-year-old gallery owner living in a loft in Manhattan that nobody knows about but if you know, you know.
The most personal one: Esther was a Jewish biblical queen. A total badass in the way she maneuvered the people around her to save her people. She embodied this underdog persona and she didn't want to be in the spotlight but ended up there. She was culturally ambiguous, she was an orphan, nobody knew who she was or where she came from. So she belonged to everyone. She had this really feminine but powerful, silent strength about her. Those were all things we related to, and things we saw reflected in the rum category itself.
The second thing: Esther sounds like esters, one of the main chemical compounds in rum that give it its flavor profile. It’s a clever nod for anyone in the industry.
The third thing was simply, what's a name nobody would expect for a rum? It's not a polished name. It's kind of harsh, kind of weird. When you think of Esther, you think of an eighty-year-old gallery owner living in a loft in Manhattan that nobody knows about but if you know, you know.
“We don't always have to fight the fight of making people love rum. We can make people love Esther.”
Emunah Winer Esther
When people ask me about it, I can give you all those answers. But the bottom line is it felt right. We did have one early investor tell us he'd only invest on the condition we change it. At first, we started thinking, is it too feminine? Will it make men not want to drink it? We tried to find other names we liked as much. We couldn't so we kept it. And it does something useful, it gives people the chance to fall in love with the brand instead of rum. We don't always have to fight the fight of making people love rum. We can make people love Esther. That's a much easier battle.
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CF
From day one you've been direct about building Esther to sell. Most founders won't say that out loud.
EW
It's scary to say, because when you put it out into the world, there's a clear fail line. That means if you don't hit it, you've essentially failed in your vision. It's a lot easier to just say, we'll see what happens, maybe it'll become profitable, maybe we'll do this forever.
But the reason we feel comfortable putting it out there is that we are doing this for us. The more we build this thing, the more we can recognize from a humble place that the founder energy all comes from us. It's a true reflection of our value systems — the way it looks, the way it tastes, how we talk about it, the type of people we invite to our parties. All of it.
We are doing this for our own livelihood. We think we found something really smart and genuine that a lot of people can relate to. In this industry, you exit or you're working on this for the rest of your life. We don't want to do that. We are building this thing for our own self-preservation and freedom. It's not a hobby, it's so that we can live our lives the way we want to live our lives.
But the reason we feel comfortable putting it out there is that we are doing this for us. The more we build this thing, the more we can recognize from a humble place that the founder energy all comes from us. It's a true reflection of our value systems — the way it looks, the way it tastes, how we talk about it, the type of people we invite to our parties. All of it.
We are doing this for our own livelihood. We think we found something really smart and genuine that a lot of people can relate to. In this industry, you exit or you're working on this for the rest of your life. We don't want to do that. We are building this thing for our own self-preservation and freedom. It's not a hobby, it's so that we can live our lives the way we want to live our lives.
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CF
You launched with a single SKU, a bold green cap, and a city-first strategy in Columbus. How are you thinking about building the brand?
EW
The first is making an icon. The only thing I care about right now is, is this thing memorable? Can you say it in one line? And we’re proving we've accomplished that goal because I'll go into a liquor store and ask, "do you have that new rum?" And they say, "the one with the big green cap?" That's all I need. No matter how the brand grows or evolves, the iconic part has to stay central. Everything visual has to revolve around that.
You look at the Nike swoosh when they first made it, it wasn't symmetrical, it wasn't super pretty, kind of ugly even. We had that same mentality going to market.
The second thing is that this has to be built on the ground, through community. Rather than creating our own worlds, we find worlds that already exist and insert ourselves into them. Campus. Art gallery pop-ups. We're not making people go somewhere new or discover something new. We're just putting ourselves into places they already love and making it feel like Esther was already part of it.
We also launched with a single SKU and a super identifiable bottle on purpose. We really wanted to give people as few things to think about as possible. There are other brands that have tried to do the cool rum thing and where they went wrong is making it incredibly complicated. People think more origin education means more interest. Really it just means more confusion.
Lalo Tequila is a good reference point. They stayed in Austin alone for their entire first year and exited for something like $750 million. It is so tempting to go wide, especially in this industry. You're going to get offers from distributors in other states, offers to show up at parties everywhere. Everyone wants free alcohol. But there are clear metrics that need to be hit in order to exit as an alcohol company and that is the plan. So we're being incredibly, and sometimes painfully, disciplined to get there.
You look at the Nike swoosh when they first made it, it wasn't symmetrical, it wasn't super pretty, kind of ugly even. We had that same mentality going to market.
The second thing is that this has to be built on the ground, through community. Rather than creating our own worlds, we find worlds that already exist and insert ourselves into them. Campus. Art gallery pop-ups. We're not making people go somewhere new or discover something new. We're just putting ourselves into places they already love and making it feel like Esther was already part of it.
We also launched with a single SKU and a super identifiable bottle on purpose. We really wanted to give people as few things to think about as possible. There are other brands that have tried to do the cool rum thing and where they went wrong is making it incredibly complicated. People think more origin education means more interest. Really it just means more confusion.
Lalo Tequila is a good reference point. They stayed in Austin alone for their entire first year and exited for something like $750 million. It is so tempting to go wide, especially in this industry. You're going to get offers from distributors in other states, offers to show up at parties everywhere. Everyone wants free alcohol. But there are clear metrics that need to be hit in order to exit as an alcohol company and that is the plan. So we're being incredibly, and sometimes painfully, disciplined to get there.
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CF
You and Margy come from branding. Is that working for or against you?
EW
The thing is, coming from design and branding, there's this instinct to be very particular and precious and locked in. In the real world, that blocks you. We’ve had to experiment live. We’ve had to put ourselves out there in really vulnerable ways before it was perfect or pretty.
People seem to think that brands that go through rebrands because they didn't get it right the first time. But that's not true. The only way to test market fit, the only way to know what you actually need to be is to put it out into the world and see how people respond to it. For a designer, that is an incredibly vulnerable thing to do.
A really good example is social media. As a brand agency, we don't touch social. But because this is our own brand, I'm touching it and the instinct is to make everything look beautiful. But things looking too good actually makes it worse because nobody can relate to it. People want to see the messy process. Our audience wants to be a part of this because they feel like their voice actually has impact. If we're so buttoned up that there's nothing left for them, then there's nothing to join.
There's also the context dial. Who is actually coming to the website? It's probably the hip, artsy consumer. The website is not for bartenders, not for bar and restaurant owners, not for the rum aficionado. I don't want to lock ourselves into only that cool, artsy consumer. I want my father's friend to be able to order it and feel good having it on his bar cart. So thinking about how to dial it up and dial it down depending on the context has become one of the most critical things.
People seem to think that brands that go through rebrands because they didn't get it right the first time. But that's not true. The only way to test market fit, the only way to know what you actually need to be is to put it out into the world and see how people respond to it. For a designer, that is an incredibly vulnerable thing to do.
A really good example is social media. As a brand agency, we don't touch social. But because this is our own brand, I'm touching it and the instinct is to make everything look beautiful. But things looking too good actually makes it worse because nobody can relate to it. People want to see the messy process. Our audience wants to be a part of this because they feel like their voice actually has impact. If we're so buttoned up that there's nothing left for them, then there's nothing to join.
There's also the context dial. Who is actually coming to the website? It's probably the hip, artsy consumer. The website is not for bartenders, not for bar and restaurant owners, not for the rum aficionado. I don't want to lock ourselves into only that cool, artsy consumer. I want my father's friend to be able to order it and feel good having it on his bar cart. So thinking about how to dial it up and dial it down depending on the context has become one of the most critical things.
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CF
Studio Freight worked on the Esther website. Let’s get into that, what was the start like?
KP
As soon as we started reading into the brand, we could tell this one was different. Something that felt more rebellious, more on brand with a lot of things I personally vibe with. There's a sense of going against the grain that I think is part of Studio Freight's DNA. So it just felt like a project I'd been hoping for since I joined.
LS
My first question was, how do we do justice to such a cool brand? Emunah and Margaret came to us with a finished product with a lot of personality, and we just needed to carry that through to the web in a way that would emphasize their non-conformist ideas. When I started looking into Queen Esther I was like, how can we blend this into web? That became a North Star?? for us.
EW
We had no clear brand guidelines. It was all just random scraps of things. You had to pull it apart, dissect it, and figure out what was actually happening. And building the website honestly helped us get to the bottom of our own brand ethos a lot faster than it would have happened otherwise. It helped us rule out a lot. You guys kind of pulled apart random scraps and built a whole world.
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CF
How did the site evolve from the first round to where it landed?
LS
The main thing Ken and I kept coming back to was that every section should be able to stand alone. If the user stops at a random point on the screen, does this look good? Could they take a screenshot and save it as a poster? That was the lens we were designing through.
KP
Early on, the conversation was about testing appetite — how much should we push the brand? How indulgent should we be? And every session after that, we almost always got a "fuck yeah, do more." That made us more and more comfortable pushing the envelope. It started as producing a rum site and became something we were both collaborating on as an extension of the brand itself.
“It felt like a very wrong thing to do at first. But when you look at it now, there was no other way.”
Lídia Santos Studio Freight
LS
And we were almost designing it as graphic designers, not web designers. We were throwing away rules from web design and creating weird compositions. One that comes to mind is this big chunk of copy where Margaret had all these poems and we thought, how do you include this on a website? It felt like a very wrong thing to do at first. But when you look at it now, there was no other way.
EW
When we reviewed the first round, it felt very rule-driven. These are the layouts, this is the typography, here are the options. By the end, we were breaking rules but it still felt totally integrated. There's a lot more play with scale and contrast. And I love how by the end you can't put your finger on it. In iteration one, you could break it down and do it yourself. Now you look at it and think, how did they do this?
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CF
Were there any decisions others might not notice but that you gave a lot of thought to?
LS
The about page. That was one of the wildest things to come together. You have these three columns where the text overlays itself as you scroll. It's something that could never have been done outside of digital. Then there are these simple, small moments like the section where the text swells apart from the green cap. It speaks directly to what Esther is doing, standing out. It tells a story in a single interaction.
KP
The about page for me too. Reading through the copy, I saw so much potential for an interesting layout and an interesting way to tell the story. We didn’t want to separate the text but have it all side by side. The experience embodies the “always beginning, never ending” narrative.
EW
It is so weird and I love it. I've had so many people ask how the hell that was done. And then the green cap splitting the text. I've gotten comments from people like, "how is that even possible?" I don't fully understand it technically either, which I think is why it floors me.
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LS
The bottom nav is a part that most people don't consciously notice. Usually, you see the nav at the top. Ours follows you at the bottom. And the recipe page doesn't look anything like a normal recipe page either. Ken had this idea where when you save a recipe, it actually takes a screenshot and saves it for you. There’s a number of unusual interactions like that.
KP
There's also an Easter egg at the bottom of each column on the about page. If you scroll all the way down, it goes into an endless scroll of images. And if you stay idle on the site, the lion appears.??
EW
One person said to me, "it's just on the edge of too weird." And that's exactly where we want to be.
“One person said to me, “it’s just on the edge of too weird.” And that’s exactly where we want to be.”
Emunah Winer Esther
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CF
It’s not too often that our clients are designer-founders, what made this collaboration work?
LS
That was my hesitation going in. Emunah even said on one of the calls, "I've never given feedback for a business that's mine." And I thought, okay, this could be very precious and difficult. But I was so surprised by how aligned they were with our ideas. They had this attitude of let's go, let's just do it. It felt very horizontal. There wasn't a strict hierarchy. We were bringing ideas, they were bringing ideas.
KP
I felt the same hesitation. A designer client would probably have a very specific vision. But every single session, we felt less resistance and more energy. It almost felt like both parties' ideas of what Esther is grew through this project.
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